Comments on: Liver: nature’s most potent superfood http://thehealthyskeptic.org/natures-most-potent-superfood/ Challenging mainstream dogma on nutrition, health and disease. Wed, 07 Jan 2009 08:47:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Bruce http://thehealthyskeptic.org/natures-most-potent-superfood/comment-page-1/#comment-206 Bruce Wed, 13 Aug 2008 17:06:27 +0000 http://thehealthyskeptic.org/?p=6#comment-206 Five pounds of carrots is insane. That's like half a gallon of juice probably. I agree with you that it's probably food elimination that provides most of the benefits there. When you stuff yourself with one food, you eat less of other foods. It's basically like a fast or elimination diet. That's how those fad diets work like the grape diet, grapefruit diet, cabbage soup diet, etc. Five pounds of carrots is insane. That’s like half a gallon of juice probably. I agree with you that it’s probably food elimination that provides most of the benefits there. When you stuff yourself with one food, you eat less of other foods. It’s basically like a fast or elimination diet. That’s how those fad diets work like the grape diet, grapefruit diet, cabbage soup diet, etc.

]]> By: Chris http://thehealthyskeptic.org/natures-most-potent-superfood/comment-page-1/#comment-205 Chris Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:17:43 +0000 http://thehealthyskeptic.org/?p=6#comment-205 Thanks Bruce. It was Max Gerson I was thinking about. If that fellow wasn't eating any fat along with the carrots, then he wasn't absorbing the beta-carotene and converting it to vitamin A. I can't see how that would be beneficial. Often when people improve with such strategies, I think what is actually happening is they are benefitting more from what they've *removed* from their diet (PUFA, flour, processed food, etc.) than what they've added (a whole bunch of carrots). Thanks Bruce. It was Max Gerson I was thinking about.

If that fellow wasn’t eating any fat along with the carrots, then he wasn’t absorbing the beta-carotene and converting it to vitamin A. I can’t see how that would be beneficial.

Often when people improve with such strategies, I think what is actually happening is they are benefitting more from what they’ve *removed* from their diet (PUFA, flour, processed food, etc.) than what they’ve added (a whole bunch of carrots).

]]> By: Bruce http://thehealthyskeptic.org/natures-most-potent-superfood/comment-page-1/#comment-204 Bruce Wed, 13 Aug 2008 03:13:30 +0000 http://thehealthyskeptic.org/?p=6#comment-204 Max Gerson used to do that, but he stopped recommending the practice for some reason. I think raw liver would be better than 5 pounds of carrots. It would be difficult to consume that many carrots unless you juiced them and carrots are high in sucrose and carbs. What's the reason for liver juice? It's not hard to eat raw liver, just swallow without chewing. Stefansson said in one of his articles that the the Eskimos didn't chew their meat much. A dog won't chew their food, either. They just gulp it down. Max Gerson used to do that, but he stopped recommending the practice for some reason. I think raw liver would be better than 5 pounds of carrots. It would be difficult to consume that many carrots unless you juiced them and carrots are high in sucrose and carbs. What’s the reason for liver juice? It’s not hard to eat raw liver, just swallow without chewing. Stefansson said in one of his articles that the the Eskimos didn’t chew their meat much. A dog won’t chew their food, either. They just gulp it down.

]]> By: Chris http://thehealthyskeptic.org/natures-most-potent-superfood/comment-page-1/#comment-203 Chris Wed, 13 Aug 2008 02:53:46 +0000 http://thehealthyskeptic.org/?p=6#comment-203 In short - yes! There is a rather famous doctor (can't remember his name at the moment) who uses raw liver juice and dessicated liver to treat cancer. In short - yes! There is a rather famous doctor (can’t remember his name at the moment) who uses raw liver juice and dessicated liver to treat cancer.

]]> By: crystal sage http://thehealthyskeptic.org/natures-most-potent-superfood/comment-page-1/#comment-202 crystal sage Wed, 13 Aug 2008 01:12:54 +0000 http://thehealthyskeptic.org/?p=6#comment-202 I have just recently read an article where a fellow consumed 5 pounds of carrots daily to treat his cancer.. Would he have been better off adding some liver to his diet? http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chris/2006/11/12/re_my_experience_with_carrots_and_cancer.htm I have just recently read an article where a fellow consumed 5 pounds of carrots daily to treat his cancer.. Would he have been better off adding some liver to his diet?

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chris/2006/11/12/re_my_experience_with_carrots_and_cancer.htm

]]> By: admin http://thehealthyskeptic.org/natures-most-potent-superfood/comment-page-1/#comment-59 admin Thu, 22 May 2008 05:14:08 +0000 http://thehealthyskeptic.org/?p=6#comment-59 Bruce, Sorry you had trouble posting the comment. I'll look into it. I'm still pretty new to blogging, so I haven't figured out exactly how the comments filter works. Thanks for the link about mead acid. I'll definitely read it, and I've seen a lot of discussion of mead acid and the various other fatty acids elsewhere lately. Clearly we still have much to learn. Best, Chris Bruce,

Sorry you had trouble posting the comment. I’ll look into it. I’m still pretty new to blogging, so I haven’t figured out exactly how the comments filter works.

Thanks for the link about mead acid. I’ll definitely read it, and I’ve seen a lot of discussion of mead acid and the various other fatty acids elsewhere lately. Clearly we still have much to learn.

Best,
Chris

]]> By: Bruce http://thehealthyskeptic.org/natures-most-potent-superfood/comment-page-1/#comment-54 Bruce Sat, 17 May 2008 23:18:43 +0000 http://thehealthyskeptic.org/?p=6#comment-54 I tried to post this in the EFA article, but the site kept rejecting it. Said you had disabled all comments temporarily to prevent spam. I think because of having several links, the software identifies it as spam. I didn't think it had gone through at all, because the site wouldn't accept it. Peat is not against small amounts of omega-3, but he gets it in the form of shellfish and lean fish (cod, white fish, pollock, etc) eating occasionally. The point that he makes is that we should be making more Mead Acid, which is the 20:3 omega-9 PUFA our bodies make (from MUFAs, SFAs, carbs, protein, and so forth). Here's a good article about Mead Acid. http://forum.lowcarber.org/showpost.php?p=7121180&postcount=15 There are other PUFAs we can make, llike Nervonic Acid, with vital functions in the brain. These fats have not been investigated enough, because all of the attention is on dietary PUFA (omega-3 and omega-6). Mead Acid is less inflammatory than omega-3. In fact, it makes omega-3 look inflammatory by comparison. Peat believes that most of the PUFAs in our bodies should be made by our body. That way, there's a feedback loop preventing them from building up to toxic levels. Obviously, it's impossible to avoid omega-6 and omega-3 fats completely, but they can be kept very low (1-4% of calories), without much effort, depending on your total fat intake. I tried to post this in the EFA article, but the site kept rejecting it. Said you had disabled all comments temporarily to prevent spam. I think because of having several links, the software identifies it as spam. I didn’t think it had gone through at all, because the site wouldn’t accept it.

Peat is not against small amounts of omega-3, but he gets it in the form of shellfish and lean fish (cod, white fish, pollock, etc) eating occasionally. The point that he makes is that we should be making more Mead Acid, which is the 20:3 omega-9 PUFA our bodies make (from MUFAs, SFAs, carbs, protein, and so forth). Here’s a good article about Mead Acid.

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showpost.php?p=7121180&postcount=15

There are other PUFAs we can make, llike Nervonic Acid, with vital functions in the brain. These fats have not been investigated enough, because all of the attention is on dietary PUFA (omega-3 and omega-6). Mead Acid is less inflammatory than omega-3. In fact, it makes omega-3 look inflammatory by comparison. Peat believes that most of the PUFAs in our bodies should be made by our body. That way, there’s a feedback loop preventing them from building up to toxic levels. Obviously, it’s impossible to avoid omega-6 and omega-3 fats completely, but they can be kept very low (1-4% of calories), without much effort, depending on your total fat intake.

]]> By: admin http://thehealthyskeptic.org/natures-most-potent-superfood/comment-page-1/#comment-50 admin Sat, 17 May 2008 19:35:37 +0000 http://thehealthyskeptic.org/?p=6#comment-50 Bruce, Sorry I didn't reply earlier. Somehow your comment was erroneously labeled as SPAM. Yes, Chris's report is excellent. I have also read all of Ray Peat's articles and I am less convinced by some of his more extreme views. I do not believe that n-3 PUFA in small amounts is toxic as he suggests. However, in general he makes several good points and I agree with much of what he is trying to get across. Best, Chris Bruce,

Sorry I didn’t reply earlier. Somehow your comment was erroneously labeled as SPAM.

Yes, Chris’s report is excellent. I have also read all of Ray Peat’s articles and I am less convinced by some of his more extreme views. I do not believe that n-3 PUFA in small amounts is toxic as he suggests. However, in general he makes several good points and I agree with much of what he is trying to get across.

Best,
Chris

]]> By: Bruce http://thehealthyskeptic.org/natures-most-potent-superfood/comment-page-1/#comment-48 Bruce Mon, 12 May 2008 00:19:08 +0000 http://thehealthyskeptic.org/?p=6#comment-48 I'm glad you pointed out Chris Masterjohn's PUFA Report. I've been talking with him about PUFAs on another list, and he has changed his position very considerably from what it was several months ago. A lot of information has been presented by Ray Peat that I find valuable, such as the health benefit of keeping PUFAs very low, the toxicity of various plants, etc. Chris makes a good point that the need for PUFAs is inflated by modern diets of processed refined sugars and toxic vegetable oils. I've read Ray Peat's articles on fats, oils, Vitamin E, and PUFAs. He is a bit extreme about it, basing the diet on foods that are very low in PUFAs, like coconut oil, dairy, red meat, potatoes, honey, fruit, and root vegetables. I think there is a lot of truth to what he is saying, though. Here are some of his key articles, I think, which support a lot of Chris Masterjohn's points. It is good to read them all, as they build on each other. http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/coconut-oil.shtml http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fats-degeneration.shtml http://raypeat.com/articles/nutrition/oils-in-context.shtml http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/unsaturated-oils.shtml I’m glad you pointed out Chris Masterjohn’s PUFA Report. I’ve been talking with him about PUFAs on another list, and he has changed his position very considerably from what it was several months ago. A lot of information has been presented by Ray Peat that I find valuable, such as the health benefit of keeping PUFAs very low, the toxicity of various plants, etc. Chris makes a good point that the need for PUFAs is inflated by modern diets of processed refined sugars and toxic vegetable oils.

I’ve read Ray Peat’s articles on fats, oils, Vitamin E, and PUFAs. He is a bit extreme about it, basing the diet on foods that are very low in PUFAs, like coconut oil, dairy, red meat, potatoes, honey, fruit, and root vegetables. I think there is a lot of truth to what he is saying, though. Here are some of his key articles, I think, which support a lot of Chris Masterjohn’s points. It is good to read them all, as they build on each other.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/coconut-oil.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fats-degeneration.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/nutrition/oils-in-context.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/unsaturated-oils.shtml

]]> By: admin http://thehealthyskeptic.org/natures-most-potent-superfood/comment-page-1/#comment-23 admin Fri, 25 Apr 2008 02:40:07 +0000 http://thehealthyskeptic.org/?p=6#comment-23 Hi Bruce, Thanks for your very thorough reply. I agree with you that eating lean meat (or any source of lean protein) without fat isn't a good idea. In part this is due to the higher iron content per calorie, as you mentioned; the other reason is that digestion of protein requires the presence of fat-soluble vitamins (A & D), and if we eat lean protein without fat it depletes our body's own stores of those vitamins (which are crucial to health). I pretty much agree with everything else you've said here. I just want to reiterate, however, that I'm not saying that liver is "better" than carrots or apples. As you point out, such a claim isn't really meaningful without a context. My intention was simply to counter the popular myth that fruits and vegetables are higher in micronutrients than meats and organ meats. I've got nothing against fruits and vegetables :) - I eat them every day! Are they essential to health? Possibly, possibly not. But as you suggest, there are plenty of cultures around the world that eat almost no fruits and vegetables at all and are healthy and free of many modern degenerative diseases. The Masai tribe in Africa comes to mind. They subsist almost entirely on milk, blood and beef. Hi Bruce,

Thanks for your very thorough reply. I agree with you that eating lean meat (or any source of lean protein) without fat isn’t a good idea. In part this is due to the higher iron content per calorie, as you mentioned; the other reason is that digestion of protein requires the presence of fat-soluble vitamins (A & D), and if we eat lean protein without fat it depletes our body’s own stores of those vitamins (which are crucial to health).

I pretty much agree with everything else you’ve said here. I just want to reiterate, however, that I’m not saying that liver is “better” than carrots or apples. As you point out, such a claim isn’t really meaningful without a context. My intention was simply to counter the popular myth that fruits and vegetables are higher in micronutrients than meats and organ meats.

I’ve got nothing against fruits and vegetables :) - I eat them every day! Are they essential to health? Possibly, possibly not. But as you suggest, there are plenty of cultures around the world that eat almost no fruits and vegetables at all and are healthy and free of many modern degenerative diseases. The Masai tribe in Africa comes to mind. They subsist almost entirely on milk, blood and beef.

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